Tract #23: Tough Questions for Christians
Tract #23, Tough Questions for Christians, is ready for you to download and review. Download it, see page #3 for printing instructions, and let me know your comments! Thanks!
023_questions-for-christians.pdf
Tough Questions for Christians
It’s possible to be both philosophically rigorous and a Christian, but far too many Christians have not asked themselves enough tough questions about their own beliefs to make sure that they are indeed rigorous. Here are a few they might consider:
- Does God have free will? Could He choose to do evil?
- What crime deserves an eternity of punishment?
- What does it mean when you say that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are one? Can you form an analogy to make this more clear?
- Some Christians pray to Jesus in the hope that he will intercede with God. Does this make sense if Jesus and God are the same person?
- If human evils must be allowed so that we can have free will, why did God also create natural evils, like floods and disease?
- You believe in the supernatural. How do you know when to reject supernatural explanations for things like UFOs or spontaneous human combustion?
- How can you tell false and true religions apart? Where do false religions — including false Christian sects — come from?
- What is a Christian? Are there any groups of people who call themselves Christians that are not really Christians?
- If God sometimes interferes in human events, why didn’t he either prevent the Holocaust or arrange for it to end sooner?
- If prayer can help someone get into Heaven, does this mean that someone who went to Hell might have been saved if someone had prayed for them? Is that fair?
- If God told you to kill a child, would you do it? If God told someone else to kill a child, would you interfere?
- If you believe homosexuality is wrong, would you encourage Christian girls to marry gay men and end their lives of sin?
- Why aren’t amputees ever miraculously cured?
- Why are modern-day miracles less impressive than those in Biblical times?
- Does God value faith more than He values belief based on evidence? If so, does that make sense?
- If you pray for an answer to a question, how do you know when God answers? Could it be that you are being deceived by a demon?
- How can you tell the difference between a prayer that’s been answered by God and a coincidence that happens to coincide with your desires?
- If some of your beliefs are based on what you feel in your heart, do you accept as true what others feel?
- Did all of the people who lived before the time of Jesus go to Hell? Is that just?
- Can people who never hear about Jesus go to Heaven?
- If God gave us intelligence, wouldn’t he want us to examine our beliefs with reason?
on June 25, 2009 at 9:28 am
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The “tough” questions you wrote about Christianity are not “tough” at all!
Yes God has free will. Yes he could choose to do evil, but he wouldn’t because he’s infinitely good.
Rejecting God deserves an eternity of punishment?
God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are like the cab, trailer, and wheels of a truck, separate but all one.
Praying to jesus is the same as praying to God.
Natural evils are corruptions of the earth after the fall.
Supernatural thing that do not agree with the Bible do not exist.
Christianity is the only true religion. False ‘Christians’ don’t agree with the Bible.
A Christian is someone who follows the teachins of Jesus. Mormons and Catholics are not really Christians.
God doesn’t interfere with free will.
Prayer can’t help someone get into heaven.
God would not tell soemone to kill a child.
Homosexuality is wrong. Homosexuals should be cured.
God could cure an amputee.
After the miracle of Jesus, God has given us all the evidence we need.
Faith is the ultimate expression of trust.
You know in your heart when God speaks to you. Atheists wouldn’t know this. A real Christian can tell when a demon is trying to deceive.
You know in your heart when God answers.
I accept what other people when it agrees with the Bible.
It is just that unpunished sin is punished in Hell.
Everyone has an opportunity to accept Jesus.
Christianity is totally compatible with reason.
That was easy, I’ll do the bible one next.
on September 2, 2009 at 8:24 am
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“Christianity is totally compatible with reason”… well, since you say it, it must be true (saracasm).
Rudeness aside, another question: How can God be both omnipotent and omniscient? “There is a glaring contradiction in the Christian belief in Satan. Satan destroys the supposed monotheism of Christianity. The Christian God is supposedly one God. The One True God. (Aren’t they all?) Christianity purports to be monotheism all the way. No pantheons like those pagan Hindus. No siree. At the same time, the Christian God supposedly has three distinct “personages”—the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, commonly called the Holy Trinity or the Triune God. (Commonly called the One-Sided Triangle by me.) This single God purportedly has three different personalities—like The Three Faces of Eve. Or like Certs—It’s a breath mint! No, it’s a candy mint! It’s TWO mints in one!
Christian theology credits Satan with amazing powers over humans, sometimes known as “Satanic Curses.” His sole motivation is to ensnare and capture our immortal souls so he can watch us scream and writhe in agony as we roast in the blazing inferno known as Hell. Forever. Nice guy. But nice or not, if this is true, then Satan must be granted the status of a deity. He is not just another strange guy in a red suit. He is a supernatural entity with powers equal to or greater than God’s. This must be the case or else the supposedly all-merciful God would not “allow” Satan to direct his dastardly deeds toward us—we who are God’s beloved creations.
This brings up the enigma known as “The Question of Evil.” It has never been solved, and never can be. It has plagued theologians of all faiths for centuries. The reason for this is that their own definitions of God have backed them into an impossible corner. They have created their own conundrum by insisting that God is simultaneously omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipotent.
Theologians must agree that, by definition, an omniscient (all-knowing) God would have known that ultimately evil would stalk the world he was creating. There can be no doubt that evil is here; so God must have foreseen it. Theologians must likewise agree that an omnibenevolent (all-merciful) God would never inflict pain and suffering on his own purportedly beloved human creations. And finally, they must agree that an omnipotent (all-powerful) God would have had the option of creating a world with no evil in it. Nothing in the entire universe could have prevented him from doing whatever he wanted, since he is omnipotent. So, how did evil arrive on the scene?
Blaming humanity’s “free will” won’t work. An all-knowing God would know exactly where that “free will” would lead—to evil. So if he didn’t want evil to exist, he shouldn’t have created free will. There’s no getting around it. If God did not know evil would be in the world, he could not be all-knowing. If he knew there would be evil and chose to allow it, he could not be all-merciful. If he knew there would be evil but could not do anything to prevent it, he could not be all-powerful. If you insist on insisting that God is omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent, you must then also insist that there is no evil in this world—which of course is nonsense. True Believers are stuck with this insolvable problem. The Question of Evil single-handedly destroys the argument that posits an all-powerful, all-merciful, all-knowing god.
If I were an omnipotent, all-merciful God, Hell would be empty! Indeed, there would be no Hell. Does this not stand to reason?
And this brings us back to our friend, Satan. People blame Satan for the evils of the world, but blaming Satan won’t work since an omnipotent God could have created a universe with no Satan in it. God is omnipotent, remember? So Satan’s origins are as impossible to explain as evil. For Christians, though, the problem is multifaceted. The concept of three beings equaling one God is murky enough. But if you then throw Satan into the mix you’ve got a real mess. If Satan is a supernatural power, and I think it’s fair to say that sponsoring something as spectacular as Hell qualifies someone as a supernatural being, then here’s the problem. If Christians claim Satan exists, they have only two choices:
(1) They must grant that Satan is a deity, bad-ass or otherwise, meaning they no longer may lay claim to monotheism. It’s a (minimum) Two-Deity Universe.
(2) They can add Satan to their Holy Trinity, as a Fallen Angel or a Bad Seed or whatever, making their already crowded Trinity burst its seams and sprout a fourth side. A 4-sided triangle.
There are no other options if Satan is deemed to possess the awesome powers Christians assign to Him. And Satan’s fearsome credentials are firmly established. He is a (most inconvenient) deity in an ersatz monotheistic Christianity. Making things worse, and another factor overlooked, is that Satan has a companion in his sadistic voyeurism—God. Knowing/seeing all things, God will surely witness the same screams of anguish from the souls in Hell that the Devil will witness.
The theological tangle that arises inescapably from the proposition that both God and Satan oversee the unimaginable, endless torment of human souls, is quite real and quite insolvable. Which is why it is tippy-toed around by Christians. When challenged on the point, they are likely respond with something like: Satan enjoys the human agony, while God laments it (sniff, sob, tears) so the two are not companions in sadistic voyeurism. Sorry, but that dog won’t hunt. Satan is necessary if you are going to try to reconcile a loving, all-powerful God with an evil world; but God still has to take the heat (sorry) for the existence of Hell. And to frighten little children with such an abomination as Hell is a form of abuse. Trust me—I’ve been there. Anyone who preaches such horrifying garbage deserves nothing but contempt and scorn.
If this rant seemed rather harsh, don’t blame me. The Devil made me do it.”
http://www.thehappyheretic.com/10-99.htm You’ve got to love Judith Hayes.
on September 14, 2009 at 8:42 pm
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“God would not tell someone to kill a child.”
Godwin; June 25, 2009
I don’t claim to be a Christian and to read the Bible, but even I know this statement is wrong. Godwin, don’t you remember Abraham and his son? God told him to kill his son. Abraham was at the point of thrusting a knife into son, when an angel interrupted him to explain that it was only a test from God (which is unfathomable for God to do in the first place).
Research, research, research.
on September 14, 2009 at 8:44 pm
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*And the “Christians” stand in awe….*
on September 14, 2009 at 10:47 pm
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THE GUY UNDER ME IS COMPLETELY F###ING STUPID, THERE IS NO GOD
on September 14, 2009 at 10:47 pm
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YOU GUYS ARE F###IN STUPID RACIST, NARROW MINDED DOUCHES, THERE IS NO GOD, WHERE IS HE? THERES NO PROOF
on September 15, 2009 at 12:52 am
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These questions are silly. I am an atheist, none of these questions would stump any christian. Questions asking “why God does something” are dumb. Questions using logic to analyze something that uses no logic, but faith, will never get an answer.
on September 15, 2009 at 12:54 am
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@yo
Faced with such an erudite argument such as “YOU GUYS ARE F###IN STUPID RACIST, NARROW MINDED DOUCHES, THERE IS NO GOD…” the simplistic, feeble minded, masses must cower before the power of your overpowering intellectual powerfullness. For better or worse I believe the article is attempting to use the illogical statements of the Christians – and the contradictory conclusions they logically lead to – to beat them to an intellectually bloody pulp.
I don’t think this will have any more success than it ever has, but I can guarantee it will be more persuasive than even your powerfully persuasive observations – true as they may be. The problem with pointing out that the religious actually ARE stupid, racist, narrow minded and extremely absorbent, is that they will feel quite righteous in ignoring you – and your powerfully argued position.
Unfortunately they seem impervious to logic as well.
on September 15, 2009 at 1:51 am
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Let me say up front that I’m a Christian. That being said, let me point out that I don’t belong to ANY sect of Christendom. Having studied the scriptures for nearly 30 years, what I can say is that mainstream Christianity is so far off track that it’s ridiculous. I don’t make any claims about knowing it all. Far from it. I’ve still got a lot to learn.
I think that I can understand how Atheists come by their system of beliefs. Most come by it honestly when using simple logic to try and answer the questions that they’ve had about certain aspects of mainstream Christianity. Mainstream Christianity makes no sense. It never has, and I can say with confidence that it never will. Reason being that the heads of these mainstream sects are simply too damn stubborn to change their minds, to admit when they’re wrong.
Now, if you’ll grant me an audience, I’ll see if I can answer a few of the questions that were posted here originally.
*Does God have free will? Could He choose to do evil?
God certainly has free will. The second part of the question is a tough one. I’d have to claim to know the mind of God, and that’s a mistake.
*What crime deserves an eternity of punishment?
It depends on what you mean by punishment. The concept of a fiery hell simply doesn’t exist in the scriptures. Please understand that most mainstream Christianity is derived from the King James Version of the Bible, and that version has over a half a million mistakes in it that have been confirmed by scholars translating from the original Greek and Hebrew scriptures. To put it more simply, the concept of hell as a fiery place of eternal torment simply doesn’t have any scriptural basis.
*What does it mean when you say that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are one? Can you form an analogy to make this more clear?
The scripture in the New Testament that claims that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one is spurious. It was created out of whole cloth. Had the so called “trinity” actually existed, they would have been well known in the Old Testament, correct? And if the “trinity” was known in the Old testament, then Judaism wouldn’t exist, would it? It states quite clearly in the Bible that Christ is the SON of God, and that Jesus answers to God. Not the other way around.
*Some Christians pray to Jesus in the hope that he will intercede with God. Does this make sense if Jesus and God are the same person?
No.
*If human evils must be allowed so that we can have free will, why did God also create natural evils, like floods and disease?
Wow. Good question, and one that would take a long time to answer in a satisfactory manner. So here’s the short version. God doesn’t have a lot to do with the Earth right now. Satan is the God of this world (it says so right in the Bible, a curious fact that is often overlooked), and as such, He is responsible for the woes of this world.
*You believe in the supernatural. How do you know when to reject supernatural explanations for things like UFOs or spontaneous human combustion?
Everyone believes differently. Personally, I believe that God is the Creator of the cosmos. I’m a firm believer that we aren’t the only life that God created. It wouldn’t make sense to me. As far as other phenomena is concerned, I don’t believe or disbelieve.
*If prayer can help someone get into Heaven, does this mean that someone who went to Hell might have been saved if someone had prayed for them? Is that fair?
Prayer can’t get you into Heaven. As an example, in Revelation it states that there are only going to be 144,000 people in Heaven, who will rule as kings over the Earth. Now, every “Christian” that has ever been saved feels like they are going to Heaven. This is due to their confusion over two words; Heaven and Paradise. Two completely different places. One is indeed Heavenly, the other Earthly. The vast majority of people who are truly “saved” will be in the Earthly Paradise. The earthly Paradise will kind of be like Eden, but not confined to one small place. It will be planet-wide.
*Why are modern-day miracles less impressive than those in Biblical times?
Maybe because they aren’t performed by God. The last true miracles were performed in the time of Christ, and died out when the last Apostle passed on. It’s kinda like “talking in tongues”. A lot of so-called “Christians” believe in it wholeheartedly. I’ve personally witnessed this many, many times. That being said, if you go back to the scriptures, it states that when people speak in tongues, at the same time a “flame” will appear over their heads. The flame is the holy spirit. Speaking in tongues and flames over their heads while they’re doing this go hand in hand. You can’t have one without the other.
I’ve yet to EVER witness flames in association with this, so I must assume that the “speaking in tongues” that is being presented by modern day Christianity is patently false.
*Did all of the people who lived before the time of Jesus go to Hell? Is that just?
I should have written this earlier, but the Bible states that “hell” is simply mankind’s common grave. So. yes, in a matter of speaking, we all go to hell at one time or another. If you’re a mere mortal, then I’m afraid that it’s inevitable.
*If God gave us intelligence, wouldn’t he want us to examine our beliefs with reason?
You’d think so, wouldn’t you? However, this is clearly not the case with the vast majority of Christians. Open wide and swallow whole.
on September 15, 2009 at 1:53 am
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Godwin loses big time.
“Homosexuality is wrong. Homosexuals should be cured.” If homosexuality is wrong, why has it existed since the beginning of recorded history? If it ‘should’ be cured then why are the ‘cures’ touted by ex-gay ministries such miserable failures? Why is it that the AMA, the APA and dozens of other scientific organizations denounce such attempts to ‘cure’ homosexuality?
“God could cure an amputee.” Really? But God chooses not to? Why? I thought we were supposed to ask for anything in Jesus’ name and God would grant it.
“After the miracle of Jesus, God has given us all the evidence we need.” This is the coward’s way out. There is no proof of any ‘miracle of Jesus.’ There isn’t even any proof of the existence of Jesus. Sorry, bub. But any divine being that wants me to fall on my face and worship him has got to show me a little more than just a collection of badly-edited fairy tales written over 2,000 years ago and a highly divisive body of believers that worry more about where man puts his penis than feeding the poor.
FAIL
on September 15, 2009 at 2:55 am
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yo, did you just call yourself completely f###ing stupid? (your own post is below your post)
Whilst I agree that there is no god, your later assertion that the one and only christian that posted here, as well as any future Christians supporting their own faith are racist, narrow minded, and are used to clean out the vaginal canal, is rather bigoted and narrow minded in its own right is it not?
Based on situations like this in the past, I would guess that you are a troll. A christian who has posted in an attempt to besmirch the face of atheism. Regardless I suppose there could really be an atheist as generally unlikeable as you, which is unfortunate considering we already have such a bad public image.
on September 15, 2009 at 7:00 am
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I think you’re giving Christians way too much credit for their faith when you ask questions that assume there might be even a trace of truth in their belief: by asking whether God or Jesus would do this or that, you’re basically acknowledging that at least they might exist.
Far better to ask questions that leave the Christian myths, and instead focus on their scripture and beliefs without dragging their mythical creatures into the equation. For example, you might ask how Christians are able to decide that some sections of their scripture apply while others don’t. For example, the section from which the Ten Commandments are distilled include references to slavery, which for some reason is ignored whereas the remainder of the scripture is considered a model truth. Do this enough, and some of them will eventually admit they’re interpreting their scriptures–that is, they’re deciding what their God thinks–as they go.
on September 29, 2009 at 11:19 pm
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Does God have free will? Could He choose to do evil?
Jeremiah 26 (21st Century King James Version)
Jeremiah 26
1In the beginning of the reign of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah, king of Judah, came this word from the LORD, saying,
2″Thus saith the LORD: `Stand in the court of the LORD’S house, and speak unto all the cities of Judah, which come to worship in the LORD’S house, all the words that I command thee to speak unto them; diminish not a word.
3It may so be they will hearken and turn every man from his evil way, that I may repent Me of the evil which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings.’
Jonah 3
8But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.
9Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
10And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
Exodus 32
13Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.
14And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
1 Chronicles 21
15And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it; and as he was destroying, the LORD beheld, and He repented of the evil, and said to the angel who destroyed, “It is enough. Stay now thine hand.” And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite.
Not everyone was so lucky.. he wiped out whole towns and supposedly even the whole world with the flood.
Which begs the question: If God is all merciful, if God is love, if God is all good, then how can he even THINK of doing evil unto his people?
on October 17, 2009 at 6:23 am
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Religion is poison. Thanks to Christianity we have been destroying, killing each other. Enjoy nature and be compationate with each other, Then we can build a civilized society.
on December 8, 2009 at 11:31 pm
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http://www.thedoorpost.com/joy/claytonsstory
http://claytonsstory.com/
It’s the internet, and I doubt many people are going to be persuaded by the ten pages I could write in response to that, just like none of your responses are persuading me.
This is just a testimony of a boy named Clayton who actually lived life.
on April 17, 2010 at 10:34 pm
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first question
God does have free will and God is could not be evil though he could do evil because Christ was tempted in the desert by the devil.
second question
All sins deserve an eternity in punishment but at the same time if you accept Christ a you savior then you are saved from eternal punishment.
third question
God is three in one meaning that God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ) and the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost are one at the same time three. God the father is in mostly mentioned in the old testament as is usually known as Lord of Jehovah. Jesus is in the new testament but at the same time it is mentioned in Isaiah. Jesus is also the human form of God in the world, The Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost is God (Jesus) but resides in your heart (for those who believe in him) since Jesus is Omnipotent. It is a common misconception that the Holy Spirit was never mentioned in the old testament but here are a few verses:
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Isa 63:10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.
Isa 63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? Where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?
Fourth question
Well it doesn’t make sense if you are praying like that but it makes sense if you are praying to Jesus.
Fifth question
God permitted natural evils not as a way of destroying us but as a way of getting our attention and at the same time giving time of trial to all christians affected by the natural evils
sixth question
I believe in the supernatural but i do not know much about UFO so i cannot answer much about this question
seventh question
I do not like to mention it as a religion but in order to get save you need to only know you are a sinner and ask God for forgiveness. But many other Christian sects arises because of Bible misunderstanding.
eighth question
Christians there is no such thing as a real christian but there is the existence of believers and non believer, believers are the one that accepted Jesus as their savior and non believers are the ones that haven’t
ninth question
God did not prevent the Holocaust in my opinion is because it was a used as an catalyst to be able to created Israel. You might think God is being cruel but he actually punished Germany, Hitler, Himmler and all those which did atrocities to the Jews.
We could see also God punished Lenin for persecuting Jews, Lenin died before he could actually put his plan of killing all Jews
We can also see that Israel have never lost a war (ever since it’s independence) even being vastly outnumbered and going against all military calculations that Israel will inevitably fall or be destroyed.
tenth question
prayer itself can never help someone go into heaven, the only way to get into heaven is to believe in Christ.
eleventh question
If God told me to i would. Why? well it is because i already gave my all to Christ and that all i have is given to him and at the same time i have give my will to Christ and i have already accepted to become his servant, slave, temple and priest. I would not interfere i God told another person to kill a child because if it is God i have no power to go against it.
twelfth question
yes i think homosexuality is wrong but i would not encourage christian girls to marry gay men, but i would go and preach to gay men and try to change their way of thinking so that they can become straight men.
Thirteenth question
Amputees is something i have no idea of but then God actually gives them more power on their arms or legs if they are missing one arm or leg meaning that it could still be an advantage to the amputee.
Fourteenth question
Faith God values faith more because of trust (trust is something hard to achieve) as he said with his disciples that if they have the faith of the size of the mustard seed
you could move mountains. Evidence is something in my opinion as a way to prove something, It is much harder to believe in faith one something that cannot be seen that one something which has evidence.
fifteenth question
I as a real believer in Christ though you may not understand i will know thanks to God if the devil will try to tempt me but the question is if i will fall or still be able to have my head risen
Sixteenth question
There are coincidence and at the same time no luck. God will answer your prayer not as a coincidence but as a real answer.
Seventeenth question
Well if i some of my beliefs comes from emotions i would accept others with respect and might believe them.
But i my beliefs are not from emotions but from the bible.
Eighteenth question
If they did go to hell it would be unjust but then all the old testament people went to a place called sheol and those who were God’s servants such as Job (he wasn’t a hebrew) Isaiah, Moses, Etc. they would be resurrected up before the millennium to be with the other Christians.
Nineteenth question
I honestly don’t know the question to that answer. but i know God is just and he will bring this to justice.
Twentieth question
He would and i did that and i am still a believer in Christ.
I wanna point out that Satan cannot be a God because he was an angel before. Though angels are more powerful than humans they are not considered as gods because they are not omnipotent and omniscient unlike Jesus. If satan was Omniscient and omnipotent he would have overthrown God in his rebellion and at the same time he would not have entice the crowd to make Pointius Pilate to cruficy Jesus because he would have known the consequences.
Satan in order to do something bad he must have permission of God like it is seen in Job. You might think it is bad but in it is not. He is permitting Job to be tested not tempted. Well God might permit evil but he does not do evil. Examples could be if i was a general and you ask me to punish some deserters and i let you but then you killed them but then i am not the one guilty of killing them but you since you gave the order of killing while i gave you the order of punishing as the way you see fit.
on April 18, 2010 at 1:43 pm
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Kurt:
Thanks for the detailed answers! I’d like to comment briefly on a couple of them relating to God’s allowing evil:
“God permitted natural evils not as a way of destroying us but as a way of getting our attention and at the same time giving time of trial to all christians affected by the natural evils”
I have a lot of trouble finding this anywhere near convincing, particularly since God’s reason for “getting our attention” by killing innocents seems very ambiguous, and giving “time of trial” to Christians — assuming such a thing is good — would be more understandable if it were not for all the non-Christians impacted by disasters and all the Christians killed outright by them (since you can’t work through a problem that’s killed you).
“God did not prevent the Holocaust in my opinion is because it was a used as an catalyst to be able to created Israel.”
And He couldn’t think of a better way to do this than allowing millions of people — including Romani, Slavs, the disabled, the mentally ill, homosexuals, Jehovah’s Witnesses, political prisoners, and others in addition to Jews — to be killed by the Nazis? I find that unlikely.
“You might think God is being cruel but he actually punished Germany, Hitler, Himmler and all those which did atrocities to the Jews.”
I assume you mean that he has punished them in the afterlife. This might be, in some sense, just, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t cruel. Imagine a parent saying something like, “It’s true I didn’t interfere when my son was skinning your child alive, but don’t worry, I’ll see that he gets the death penalty for doing it.” I don’t think that most people would find the parent’s behavior acceptable.
Also, it sounds to me like you believe that the only way to Heaven is through acceptance of Jesus. How many non-Christians died in the Holocaust who, had they been able to live their normal life span, might have found salvation in Jesus? And how many survived the Holocaust only to be convinced by its horrors that the God they once believed in must not exist? Is it truly just to swell the ranks of those damned to Hell who might otherwise have been saved, or would you perhaps argue that none of those who died in the Holocaust without finding Jesus could ever have found him?
One final question, on a separate issue. You say, “[If] God told another person to kill a child because if it is God i have no power to go against it.” Do you mean that if someone told you that they had been commanded by God to kill a child you’d let them, or that you can tell whether or not a person is truly following a command from God? Personally, I find it unlikely that there is any situation in which a person could show up at your door saying that they were there to kill your child on God’s order and you would allow them to do so (unless you had already received a communication from God, in which case why not just kill your child yourself?)
on April 18, 2010 at 7:44 pm
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well i like your answers but your answers are true and very realistic.
I might agree that it might be evil or cruel that God did that and honestly i don’t have an answer to it.
Well God usually work in this world now in the present in a less miraculous way but then yeah 6 million Jews might be too much and also countless of other races.
well God did not punished them in the afterlife, Germany was practically in ruins, it suffered almost half an century of political turmoil and division, Hitler died thinking that all have betrayed him, these are earthly punishments but wait in the afterlife Hitler would be suffering in the lake of fire if he did not accept Christ.
Well many survived the Holocaust and many went to Israel and at the same time many were capable of going back to their faith after seeing how they were able to win war after war and go against of military probalities that Israel will inevitably lose the war.
Well the last question it could be unlikely that it would happen but then i would go against the guy that would be trying to kill the child but if it is God’s will i have no choice no matter how many times i try to prevent it and how many times i would try to save the child God will find a way to prevent me from interfering.
well these questions are a lot harder that the first ones though but thanks for the challenge (sorry about not being able to answer the first one though)
on April 19, 2010 at 9:02 am
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“well God did not punished them in the afterlife, Germany was practically in ruins, it suffered almost half an century of political turmoil and division, Hitler died thinking that all have betrayed him, these are earthly punishments but wait in the afterlife Hitler would be suffering in the lake of fire if he did not accept Christ.”
True, Hitler had a bad time of it in the last few months before he killed himself, but I don’t see how that makes your statement that God punished Hitler true. I assumed that you were talking about punishment in the afterlife because it doesn’t seem to me that any amount of earthly misery over the course of such a short period of time could possibly be just punishment for the extermination (and attempted extermination) of millions of people. And if Hitler did accept Christ, then Hitler was not punished in the afterlife for the Holocaust since Jesus accepted the punishment for him.
“Well many survived the Holocaust and many went to Israel and at the same time many were capable of going back to their faith after seeing how they were able to win war after war and go against of military probalities that Israel will inevitably lose the war.”
Of the Holocaust survivors I’ve spoken to and read about, I have found many who lost their faith because of their experience, but none who regained their faith because of Israel’s military successes. In fact, I have only heard Christians cite Israel’s military success in this way. Do you happen to remember where you heard about these Jews who returned to God because of Israel’s military prowess? I would be interested in reading more.
I should have brought this up earlier, but I also have some questions about Israel’s war record. For example, Israel captured the Sinai Peninsula, but then had to give it back under pressure from other countries. Would you count this as an Israeli victory? Would you say that Israel won the Gaza War in 2009?
“Well the last question it could be unlikely that it would happen but then i would go against the guy that would be trying to kill the child but if it is God’s will i have no choice no matter how many times i try to prevent it and how many times i would try to save the child God will find a way to prevent me from interfering.”
You make a very important point here — that you could not thwart God’s will, no matter how hard you tried. This implies that God does not, as many Christian apologists argue, avoid interfering with human free will. Since you say that God is indeed willing to thwart human free will when human desires conflict with God’s plans, then would you say that either those evils (murders, for example) that take place are all within God’s plan, or that God allows them to take place even though they are not within His plan and He has the power to stop them? Or is there another option?
on April 19, 2010 at 5:48 pm
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well for the holacaust question people have told me and well i might hafta give you an answer to that later in a week or so since i might not be able to use the pc for homework reasons.
The sinai peninsula was given back, it is considered as a political failure the same also goes to the 2008-2009 gaza war, it was a military victory for Israel in both parts but since siani peninsula was given back, in theory it is considered as a political failure of israel failing to keep the place, the same goes for Gaza that Israel has been sanctioned by many countries for war crimes and other problems. These are sanctions made in the political world but at the same time politics though it may start a war, politics has little influence to any war.
God does not avoid interfering in free will, the only choice he does not interfere is usually the one that we either choose him as a saviour, as said in the bible i am a slave, servant, son, priest to Jesus and at the same time if i have shelter and food i should be happy but then God has given a lot of things i should be thankful for. Well if you are not a believer in God then you are still a slave but a rebellious slave that would eventually and inevitably as said in the bible would bow to him in the lake of fire unless you repent and accept Christ as you savior.
Murders are not necessarily in God’s plan but could be the devil’s doing but then God have to give the devil permissionn so that the devil can actually kill the person using whatever way necessary as i said before in my first reply.
on April 19, 2010 at 6:24 pm
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Kurt:
You said, “God does not avoid interfering in free will, the only choice he does not interfere is usually the one that we either choose him as a saviour”. That’s clear enough. So in what sense is God good if he has the power to prevent evil but does not do so? What good comes from evil that outweighs the harm? You mentioned God using natural evils to get people’s attention and to give trial to Christians, but this (to me) seems unjust and does not cover most cases. Can you elaborate?
on June 29, 2010 at 10:04 am
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@ideclare: In the book of Genesis, the story of Joseph shows that his brothers committed evil against him (sold him into slavery). But Joseph eventually became the 2nd in command after some incidents in Egypt. As a result of Joseph’s trials and blessings from God, he saved Egypt from a famine in the land. Joseph’s family came as far as Egypt for food, which lead to a family reunion (of course not before he ‘tested’ his brothers) and forgiveness was shown. This is just one case God turned evil into good. Let it be known that Joseph had some learning to do as well because as a child, he acted quite arrogant to his family.
Justice to humanity is different from justice in God’s eyes. Committing a single sin is seen as being too stained to live for eternity alongside God. As such, all have sinned and fallen short of God’s glory. We may say this is unfair, but there is no “curve” (like scholastic exams) for who gets into Heaven. There is only God’s standard because he was in the beginning and His very existence defines what good and righteous behavior is, not our definition.
I may get flamed for this but one *possible* example where natural disasters have been used to gain attention could possibly be the 2004 Indian Ocean Earthquake, which caused a tsunami to hit Thailand hard. As many would probably know, Thailand and parts of Southeast Asia have a lot of sex-trafficking, which is considered to be “wrong” not only by human standards, but also God’s.
Disclaimer: I do not major in philosophy or theology so my wording may not be perfect (my framework of systematic theology exists but it’s somewhat weak). I do read what I can at times, and as commanded by Scripture, I have to be able to give a reason as to why I believe.
on April 23, 2010 at 10:21 pm
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Remember he did create evil himself and eventually he will destroy it, but remember all has it’s time for God preventing and destroying evil has not come yet.
The second questions can you kinda simplify it since i really don’t get that question (sorry but my english is a bit limited)
Well God does use natural disaster or evils to attract attention of people and to test christians but then we must also know that it is also the devil’s doing (sorry i kinda forgot to mentioned that before)
on April 24, 2010 at 7:51 pm
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God has the power but it is not yet the time to destroy evil and at the same time prevent.
Well the second question i really don’t get it.
Well God uses natural disasters or evils to gain attention from people and also to test his followers but at the same time it could be the devil’s doing that causes all of these disasters.
on June 6, 2010 at 2:01 am
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The first question is easily the best. It leads to paradoxical and contradictory answers.
If God is seen as all good (and not evil), he can’t have free-will because free-will is the ability to choose. If you can’t choose because you don’t have access to the second path, you don’t have free-will.
If God has free-will, then he isn’t God, because God is defined as always good. If free-will leads to the possibility of evil actions, it cannot be good. Free-will is not a “good” force or trait. As such, it cannot be possessed by God.
I’m going to pull that one out next debate, see how it goes.
on June 7, 2010 at 7:37 pm
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@ Godwin
Homosexuals should be cured?
1. it’s been proven that homosexuals are *born* homosexual
2. Sexuality is not a psychological disease, therefor there is no need for a cure
3. if god wanted people to be straight, they would be born straight right? Right.
on August 27, 2010 at 8:38 am
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im an atheist but if the devil is real he must have the same powers as good but he doest use them so he might be the type of devil in the movies. also about gays there fine as long as they dont do anything wrong im ok with them.