Ultimate Sacrifice

The below item is part of my "Conversations" series.

An atheist and a Christian, at four in the morning in their college dormitory.

Malik: The next one in the book is, "If you could choose to do something heroic, what would it be?"

Lauren: Let’s see — if I wanted to be a hero, first I’d make a ton of money, then I’d give grants to all these artists and charity people who can’t financially support themselves. I’d start with the guy who used to do the Big Top comic strip and get him to bring that back.

Malik: That’s a good one! If I wanted to be a hero, I’d organize a bunch of people in my church and take them around the world to all these poor countries and bring them the Gospel so that they’d know the good news and would be saved.

Lauren: Seriously?

Malik: What’s wrong with that?

Lauren: What’s wrong with that? That’s like the person who says that if he had one wish he’d wish for world peace after all his friends have said that they’d wish for money and cars and stuff.

Malik: Well then what should I wish for?

Lauren: If you really want to be a hero and do work for God, you should wish to be a serial killer.

Malik: What the heck? That’s incredibly offensive. We’ve had this argument, and God is not a murderer.

Lauren: I’m not saying He is! What I’m saying is that if you were a serial killer you could hunt all over the world for people who were saved and then kill them so that you were sure that they’d go right to Heaven and never have a chance to turn their back on God. You could even set up a deal where you bring Jesus to people like you said and then stab them in the back the second they are baptized.

Malik: You’re sick! I would never kill people. It’s a massive sin!

Lauren: That’s why it’s heroic! You’d be giving up your salvation so that you could guarantee hundreds of people their place in Heaven!

Malik: It’s not my job to send people to Heaven, and even if I thought it was, it wouldn’t work. People can think that they are saved or say that they are saved and not really be. Only God knows what’s really in their hearts, and if I kill someone who isn’t really saved, then I’m taking away his chance to find redemption before he dies.

Lauren: Babies always go straight to Heaven when they die, right? So kill babies! You could be the famous baby killer!

Malik: That’s sick. I could never do that.

Lauren: That’s because you’re not heroic. If you could wish to be a hero, you could wish for the ability to be a remorseless serial baby killer.

Malik: That’s not heroic; it’s murderous.

Lauren: Wouldn’t the babies go to Heaven?

Malik: Well, yes.

Lauren: Wouldn’t you go to Hell for murdering them?

Malik: I’d go to Hell because I’d have to reject Jesus before I could kill babies.

Lauren: Right! You’re trading your eternal soul for the salvation of others. Why wouldn’t that be heroic?

Malik: You can’t play games with lives like that. It’s immoral.

Lauren: It’s immoral to trade your life for someone else’s?

Malik: Yes. I mean, no — of course not. Jesus did that. It’s immoral to kill people.

Lauren: Even for their own good? Isn’t killing someone to make sure they go to Heaven just like cutting off a gangrenous leg to make sure that the patient doesn’t die?

Malik: That’s a completely false analogy. Your life isn’t the same as a diseased leg.

Lauren: Sure it is! A person can’t sin without a body, so if you get rid of the body, you take away the possibility of sin.

Malik: You can’t sin to save someone. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

Lauren: You wouldn’t lie to help someone find Jesus?

Malik: Nope.

Lauren: You wouldn’t, for example, tell someone you’re inviting them to a party but really be inviting them to a thinly disguised teens-for-Jesus meeting?

Malik: Hey, I apologized for that! Besides, it really was for your own good. You wouldn’t have gone if I’d told you there’d be Bibles.

Lauren: So you’d lie for the good of my soul, but not kill.

Malik: Totally different ballparks.

Lauren: Lying and killing are both Ten Commandments. So are some of the Ten Commandments more important than others? Like, can I go to Heaven if I only do some of the small ones, or maybe are ten covets equal to one adultery?

Malik: All sins are an abomination to God.

Lauren: Then if you’d lie, why not kill when it’s even more sure to work? You could even decide to kill babies for ten years and then accept Jesus as your personal savior to get your salvation.

Malik: You can’t play games like that! What if I died before ten years was up? Or what if I wasn’t able to sincerely accept Jesus after ten years of being a murderer? I might end up going to Hell anyway.

Lauren: Sure there’s risk; that’s the point. It’s heroic.

Malik: You’re an asshole.

Lauren: At least we can agree on that.

Malik: Thank you.

Lauren: Okay —what’s the next one in the book.

Malik: Ugh — "What animal do you wish humans had evolved from instead of apes?"

Lauren: Swell. We’re going to be here all night.


If you have a conversation that you’d like me to consider publishing on this blog or in an upcoming book, please see the conversation guidelines.

Posted on August 16, 2013 at 9:13 pm by ideclare · Permalink
In: Conversations

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