Dear Webmaster/Webmistress,

Very clever site. I’ve shared it with my friends and family and they all thought the ‘Arguments Against’ section was very cool. However, there is one thing I would like to call you on. In your hate-mail section, as a response to one letter, you claim that no one would actually choose to be homosexual because of all the crap s/he would get. My qualms with this aren’t really my own but those of people who ought to know better than I. Recently I’ve been attending a sexuality education class at my church (fellowship?). At the last meeting we had the oppurtinity of speaking with a panel of people from our community of whom two identified as homosexual, one as bi, one of whom was transgendered and the fifth of whom was intersex. Each of them had a problem with the argument that no one would choose to be gay. They believed that it was in some way a choice, which I understood (correctly or not) to mean the choose to openly express your feelings or to repress them. The bisexual woman explained that becoming a feminist was a choice that was bound to get her a lot of crap, but she still chose to become one. I got the impression also that they saw this claim as a justification for something that does not need to be justified. Hm. Well, I can see I’m not doing a very good job of explaining this. Well, anyway, I also wanted to convey the idea of sexual orientation as a spectrum. I don’t know if I’m telling you something you’ve already heard; I also know this has little relevance to anything I’ve said to this point and really has no context, but it’s something else about which the panel members spoke. They said that homosexuality and heterosexuality are two extreme ends of a spectrum with bisexuality landing directly in the center. Almost no one is 100% either way. Now I just probably sound like I’m trying to lecture you. I’m sorry. Anyway, my main point was to explain that some people who ought to know disagree with something you said. If you ever get a chanc e, talk to someone more on the ‘homo’ end of the spectrum than you though of course I say this having no idea where you fit in…). They might be able to explain all this better than I. Or, then again, they may completely disagree.

Anyway, I appologize for sending you such a long meandering letter.

There is definitely choice involved in how you present your sexuality, but I don’t think there’s that much choice involved when it comes down to how someone actually feels. I don’t know how much control an individual has over whom they are attracted to. I also agree that sexuality seems to be a spectrum — there has been some very interesting science along these lines recently.

Even given all this, I need to retract my statement about nobody choosing to be homosexual (in the sense of having the emotions of a gay person). I used to spend a lot of time in a woman’s bookstore in Westwood, and now that I think about it I do recall some lesbians saying that they hoped their daughter would be gay because they had had such horrible experiences with men. Obviously these people were happy not to be heterosexual despite the social problems being a lesbian brought with it.

hey there,

great site, it’s always nice to see another inteligent athiest out in the wolds of the internet, we’re officially the most despised and hated people in america (more then any religion, race, ethnicity, or other identity label. [URL]) so we’ve gotta stick to together…

One thing I noticed though was a comment you made in one of your replies about Mormons which I’ve got to disagree with. you said

“I also note that in religions where morality is more actively taught (such as Mormonism), there is more morality and less self-righteousness.”

As someone who was raised mormon I’ve got to say that this is most definitely not the case. Mormon communities are extremely tight-knit and mostsocial transactions involve the church on some level. Virtually everyone I know that has been a member in the past and is no longer in the church experienced extreme ostracization and hostility when they left. It’s particularly bad for young people who’ve grown up in the church and decide to leave, that decision can be met with anything from forced “counseling” with church authorities to physical violence to being thrown out on the street by parents. Lots of no fun. And of course weddings, funerals, etc are all intensely religious experiences for mormons so if you’re not a member you won’t be invited to the wedding and you’d better come prepared for a serious sermon at a funeral. Mormons take self-righteousness to heights I’ve never encountered in people of any other creed, they just don’t usually do it to non-members in places
where they are not the majority.

And, of course, there is the little fact that the religion is explicitly white supremecist, though they don’t publicize that bit as much as they used too. I’ve written quite a bit about that particular topic on my [URLs]. Truly nasty stuff. I’d be hard pressed to think of a more self-righteous religious doctrine then the believe non-white skin is a curse bestowed by the creator of the universe.

anyway, that’s about it for me, just wanted to disabuse you of any illusions you might have had about mormons being more moral or less self-righteous. any statement about a group is fallacious when applied to individuals, of course – there are always exceptions to every generalization – but as a whole I’ve found mormons to be some of the worst of the worst among rabidly intolerant theists. They just don’t appear as bad from the outside because (outside of Utah) they’re a minority and not in a position to impose their beliefs the way certain other christian sects are.

I was basing my statement about Mormons on personal experience (my spouse used to be Mormon) and am sorry to say that it appears I was incorrect. It still appears to me that many Mormons behave within the limits of the morality they are taught more so than do people who are not actively taught morality, but you have certainly caused me to question the value of Mormon morality in the first place.