I am no longer updating these pages. If you want to read current correspondence (and my responses), take a look at the IAmAnAtheist Blog. Thanks!
Before I get on with the usual correspondence, I want to apologize for the long delay since my last posting. Unfortunately, I lost my job a little over a month ago and things have been very busy around here as I try and find alternate means of support. I appreciate everyone's patience, and I encourage you to keep writing, even if my responses are slow. Thanks!
I really like that best letter you ever received. It tells a good story. My mother always argues "What about all the atheists who became Christians?" but she hasn't actual examples of 'all the atheists', just my deceased grand father who was, by all reports, a complete bastard who gave Christianity lip service. I always reply with, "What about the Christians that became atheists? Like me?" Thanks to sites like yours, next time she says that, I can send her my proof of Christians gone wild.
I was looking through all your definetions of atheism and what it means, and it occured to me that you don't have catagorized what I am. I don't believe in anything but myself. Because that is the only justified truth in this world. I don't believe in worshipping god or any kind of religion but I also accept the possibility of there being a god. Atheism looks to me like another type of religion, blocking your views from everything but what you think. I am not an atheist but chose not to follow the path of god because I find the alternative more suitable. I would prefer rather that being labeled as an atheist to be labeled as openminded, which is much more realistic. It would be kind to convey to people who may share my view to turn away from atheism as it would only turn them on a path they have been trying to escape. I'm talking about closemindedness. My belief is that people should try to live a happy, good life. If religion makes you happy, by all means whatever t he religion involves indulge yourself in it. However, what makes me happy is clearing myself of these things and sticking to what i know. I am here, i want to be happy, i know what is right, i feel what is wrong, ect. ect. My point being that in us, we are capable of functioning without religion, we are capable of being happy without religion, and some people choose not to have a religion for a logical reason. This does not mean however that they are against the possibility that there might be a god.
I have to say though before I go, that I appreciate your page so much and i think you did a great job. Stay openminded : )
I believe you misunderstand how I define atheism. I define atheism as, simply, the lack of religion. Under that definition, there are many types of atheist (broadly categorized as "strong" and "weak" atheists).
Someone who only believes in himself is a solipsist. That is a rather extreme form of skepticism, and from other things you say I don't think you really fall under that heading.
I accept the possibility of a deity but think such a thing unlikely, so I think we agree on that. But when you say that atheism looks like another kind of religion, I have to assume that you mean strong atheism -- making the statement that there is no deity. I am an atheist, but I do not make that statement because I believe it to be unprovable. I believe that I am quite open minded, so I reject your association of atheism with closed mindedness (although there are certainly some closed-minded atheists). If someone has good proof of a deity, I'll change my opinion.
I agree that people should try and be happy, but I think that your philosophy goes too far in that direction. In addition to being happy, one should (at least) do no harm to others. There are some belief systems that make their followers happy at the expense of others, and I would certainly not encourage anyone to "indulge" in such a practice.
You also say that you, "know what is right, feel what is wrong". This also hints of dangerous philosophy. Purely using emotions to decide right and wrong is a sorry substitute for a well-reasoned philosophy and system of ethics.
You are right that some people are not religious for logical reasons. I am one of those people. I agree that this does not rule out the possibility that there might be a god. I am still an atheist.
Getting back to how I would label your belief system, I'd say that you are an atheist who doesn't like the "atheist" label.
god can suck my large penis
Sigh.
The following item was sent by a church pastor.
It s not easy to be an atheist
An atheist is confined to a life without ultimate purpose. Yes, atheists enjoy many smaller meanings of life-- like friendship and love, pleasure and sorrow, Mozart and Plato. But to be consistent with his atheism, he cannot allow for ultimate meaning. Yet, if the atheist is honest, he will admit to feeling that there is something more to existence -something bigger. Someone said, "The blazing evidence for immortality is our dissatisfaction with any other solution." According to Scripture, God has, "set eternity in the hearts of men" (Ecclesiastes 3:11). To maintain his position, the atheist must suppress the feeling that there is more to life than temporal pleasures. But the atheist encounters many other difficulties.
The atheist must also suppress the demands of logic. He is like the man who finds an encyclopedia lying in the woods and refuses to believe it is the product of intelligent design. Everything about the book suggests intelligent cause. But, if he accepted such a possibility, he might be forced to conclude that living creatures composed of millions of DNA-controlled cells (each cell containing the amount of information in an encyclopedia) have an intelligent cause. His controlling bias against God will not allow him to accept this.
Yet, ironically, the atheist has to believe in miracles without believing in God. Why? Well, one law that nature seems to obey is this: whatever begins to exist is caused to exist. The atheist knows that the universe began to exist and since the universe is, according to the atheist, all there is, the very existence of the universe seems to be a colossal violation of the laws of nature (i.e., a miracle). It's hard to believe in miracles without God.
An atheist must also suppress all notions of morality. He is not able to declare any quality to be morally superior to another. Such admissions require an absolute standard of goodness and duty. Without this, there is no basis for an atheist to declare peace better than war or love better than hate. These are simply alternative choices without moral superiority. The atheist is stuck believing that morality has no claim on you or anyone else.
In fact, the atheist must conclude that evil is an illusion. For there to be evil, there must also be some real, objective standard of right and wrong. But if the physical universe is all there is, there can be no such standard (How could arrangements of matter and energy make judgments about good and evil true?). So, there are no real evils, just violations of human customs or conventions. How hard it would be to think of murderers as merely having bad manners.
The atheist must also live with the arrogance of his position. Although he realizes that he does not possess total knowledge, his assertion that there is no God requires that he pretend such knowledge. Although he has limited experience, he must convince himself that he has total experience so that he can eliminate the possibility of God. It is not easy to hold the arrogant assertions required by atheism in a society that requires blind tolerance of every ideology.
The atheist must also deny the validity of historical proof. If he accepted the standard rules for testing the truth claims of historical documents, he would be forced to accept the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. The account of Jesus' resurrection is strongly validated by standard rules for judging historical accuracy. The extensive manuscript evidence of eyewitnesses to the resurrection is presented in an unbiased, authentic manner. It is the atheist's anti-supernatural bias that keeps him from allowing history to prove anything.
Finally, the atheist must admit that human beings are not importantly different from other animals. According to the atheist, we are simply the result of blind chance operating on the primordial ooze, and differing from animals by only a few genes. Yet, the wonders of human achievement and the moral dignity we ascribe to human beings just do not fit with the claim that we are no different than the animals. The realities of human creativity, love, reason, and moral value seem to indicate that humans are creatures uniquely made in the image of God.
Always remember that the atheist's problem with belief in God is not the absence of evidence but the suppression of it. This is what scripture teaches. "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:20-22).
Thank you very much for your insightful and well-thought-out letter. I will address you points one at a time.
"An atheist is confined to a life without ultimate purpose." I agree, if you mean by "ultimate purpose" a goal given by a supernatural being. In fact, in that case, as an atheist I disagree with you by definition. On the other hand, I believe that it is every person's responsibility to try and make the world a better place. That is not a God-given purpose, but it is the highest purpose I can think of aspiring to. What would you, as a theist, say that your ultimate purpose is? The only answers I have gotten to this question from theists in the past have been "to serve God" or "to fulfill whatever God's purpose for me is on earth," both of which are, to me at least, so vague as to be potentially useless.
"If the atheist is honest, he will admit to feeling that there is something more to existence -something bigger." If you are honest, then you will admit that you don't know how it feels be an atheist. I agree that there is more to life than temporal pleasures (as I said in my previous paragraph), but I am not suppressing any feelings. Many atheists say that theists only have religion because they are afraid of their knowledge that there is nothing after death or that there is no supernatural force looking after them. I would not insult you by saying that you are "repressing" such feelings.
"The atheist must also suppress the demands of logic." On the contrary, looking for scientifically verifiable answers requires much more logic than does saying that any unknowns can be filled by a deity. There is a big difference between DNA and an encyclopedia -- I can conceive of many natural, designless means by which DNA can come to be, but none for a book. You are correct that I have a bias against God -- supernatural explanations should only be allowed when natural ones are ruled out. God should not take this personally, as I apply such reasoning to all supernatural things.
"the atheist has to believe in miracles without believing in God" Miracles are something that happens outside of the laws of nature. So far, I have seen no such thing. You are incorrect that the laws of nature require causes for effects, as many bizarre examples in quantum physics show. You are right that I don't know what came before our universe, but there are plenty of nature-based theories awaiting testing, and I see no need to invoke God to fill gaps in knowledge.
"An atheist must also suppress all notions of morality" This statement assumes that morality is a matter of feelings or of something outside of people. I disagree. Reason can create a perfectly acceptable system of morality. In fact, in my experience, reason has done a better job of creating consistent morality than religion. I'd say that, in general, peace is better than war because less people die for no good reason during peace, and I say that without any absolute standard of goodness. I can also give you perfectly reasonable reasons to avoid unnecessary violence and the killing of children. Religion, on the other hand, sometimes says that it is a good idea to kill your enemy's children (I'll leave finding the Biblical citations for that up to you).
"In fact, the atheist must conclude that evil is an illusion" You're going to have to define evil and good for me before we can really discuss this one. Many religious people, in my experience, define good as "doing God's will" or something like that, and under such a definition, you would in a way be right in saying that I think evil is an illusion. The problem is that I don't define good that way. I'd say that evil is acting completely in your own self interest and taking pleasure in the suffering of others (or at least not caring about the suffering of others). Plenty of people in history fit this definition of evil, and it doesn't require the existence of anything supernatural.
Let me ask you, what is your standard of good for humanity? If it's God, then behaving like God would be good, but given his behavior in the Old Testament I doubt you'd say that is the case. If it's a standard laid out by God but not practiced by God, then it is a concept that either exists outside of God (in which case he is not necessary) or that is only meaningful because God commands it to be, in which case I do not find it morally compelling. There are probably other options here that I am not thinking of. I would appreciate your thoughts on this subject.
"The atheist must also live with the arrogance of his position" You are making an invalid assumption here. I do not say that there is no God, I am just not convinced of the existence of any deities. Similarly, I also do not say that there is no life in other solar systems, but I don't believe that aliens have visited Earth. (I do think that alien visitation is more likely than the existence of God, but not by much.) In either case, with sufficient evidence I will change my mind.
"The atheist must also deny the validity of historical proof." Not at all. As they say, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Standard rules of testing historical claims do not at all require the belief that Jesus rose from the dead any more than they demand that I believe the Emperor of Japan is descended from the sun god. There are many, many books about the difficulties with the accounts of Jesus' resurrection, and your assertion that the Gospels are unbiased is rather surprising to me -- I found them (particularly John) biased even when I was a theist. In order to accept the Gospels at face value, my standards for accepting eye-witness accounts of the supernatural would have to be lowered so much that I'd also feel compelled to believe in Bigfoot, UFO abductions, and any number of religions. No thank you.
"Finally, the atheist must admit that human beings are not importantly different from other animals." Well, to start, we are not "simply the result of blind chance" -- I believe we are a product of evolution, which is not simply blind chance, although it does incorporate chance. But I don't think that's what you're getting at.
You seem to be saying that atheists don't think humans have some kind of moral superiority or higher value than other animals. Some atheists do think that, but I am not one of them. The wonders of human achievement and the moral responsibility we assign to humans has everything to do with the wonders of evolved intelligence, and as intelligent beings we are different from other animals because we have more of an ability to affect other living things. But the value we place on humans also has a lot to do with the fact that we are humans -- I expect that lions place a lot of value on other lions, too, but that has no metaphysical implications.
You then talk about the wonders of human emotion and civilization as proof that humans are made in the image of God. I just don't see the logical connection here. Are you saying that it is impossible for beings to have creativity, love, reason, and morality without being made in God's image? That is an interesting statement in that it is, in principle at least, falsifiable. But other than that, I really don't understand your reasoning.
"that the atheist's problem with belief in God is not the absence of evidence but the suppression of it." Show me this evidence. If it's compelling, I'll change my mind.
Does visiting this site count as an un-baptism? That's what I'm looking for. I don't want a secret free pass from hell by having been baptised. I'm serious. I don't believe in God! I had no say in the baptism, I was only four months old. I did agree to the confirmation, but what did I know? I was only twelve. At twelve they wont let you drive a car, have a job or get a loan, but you can plot our your eternity. Nonsense! I want out!
I'd say that thinking for yourself counts as an un-baptism. You can't be held responsible for the promises about your beliefs made by others when you were a child. And you can't be compelled to not change your thinking because of something you said when you were twelve.
Heck, when I was five I told my uncle I'd grow up to be a doctor, and he doesn't complain that I changed my mind.
if the bible speaks the truth...why is the story of Noah's Arc a rip off of a part in The Epic of Gilgamesh written thousands of years before the bible?
The similarities between Gilgamesh and Bible stories don't really prove anything metaphysical, no matter how useful they are from a folklore perspective.
Where do I begin?
I really loved the comment about "monkeys turning into humans". that's brilliant. that guy must be a compleate turd to think that that's how evolution works.
you see, god is the answer for those who don't want to know the answer.
there's no evidence of a god - there never was.
I'm going to minorly disagree with you on this. There is evidence of a god, just not good or compelling evidence. In this sense, there's evidence for vampires, too.
I find it odd that those who believe in that 'loving' Christian religion leave the most abusive and hateful posts. I'm not saying that I agree with everything on the site, but the hatred spewed by the 'believers' definitely speaks to the mindset of the religious. Well, I could pontificate like an ass for hours, but kudos to you, Sir (or Ma'am) on a thought provoking site.
Great site - you have an excellent collection of hate mail. Whilst reading some of said hate mail, I was reminded, appropriately enough, of Torquemada's Law, and I apologise if you've heard it before.
Basically, it states - "When you know that you are right, you have a moral duty to impose your will on anyone who disagrees with you." Christian fundamentalism in a nutshell, I do declare.Keep up the good work - the bigoted vitriol in most of the "Christian" comments neatly illustrates the absence of a moral compass. You're giving them the rope, they're hanging themselves - it's art I tell you!
It's been over a month... I hope you didn't, like, die and
go to hell or nuthin' like that...
"Remember, theists may condemn you for living by this code because you are doing it of your own free will instead of because you're afraid that if you don't a supreme being will set you on fire."
actually, by setting up this website, you've guaranteed this to be untrue. i am now an atheist by virtue of you having named me one. congratulations, you've verified everything i've ever said about atheists, which is, they're every bit as arbitrary as the theists.
still an agnostic thanks
I'm going to agree with you that those atheists who state that there is no possibility of god can be as arbitrary as theists. Fortunately, I'm not one of those.
I do see the irony you point out, though. In fact, it's pretty much what gave me the idea for the site in the first place.
I don t know if there is a god, I however would describe my self as and Atheist. However, I have this to say, if there is a god he is a retarded man with a My First Chemistry Set
Also, I have one more thing to say. It seems to me that Christianity is what makes things ugly.
Re: All the "gay" comments.
As a sociologist, I have seen many studies which suggest that homosexuals tend to be more intelligent than the general population as a whole. As an atheist, I have met many more gay atheists than straight ones, and as a lesbian, I have met more atheist or "goddess religion" (more for show than true belief) lesbians than straight ones. The most intelligent beings on earth, of course, are atheistic lesbians with advanced degrees. Love your site, whatever your gender or preference LOL
I enjoyed the site. Loved the letters, both the ones that enrage me, i.e, the haters, and those for whom I feel sad - the simple believers who I feel are deluded.
As I live near the buckle of the bible belt (east tennessee) I am inundated daily with unthinking religious doctrine from a particularly vile branch of xtian fundamentalism. I retired here because it is lovely, but, after two years, will move next year to someplace less intellectually dead. Sad.
I see things every day that either make me angry or sad, some, such as my mother-in-law believing she will go to hell and/or lose all her earthly possessions first if she does not tithe too much of her already limited income, make me both angry and sad.
I have no problem being moral without a personal god (well, I do worship my wife - which is fine with her). I can recognize good from bad for myself and society without a rule book. Good things do the least or no harm and help others - making my life and my society function more smoothly. Bad things do not.
I cannot believe in a god that is selfish, demanding, throws tantrums, and practices capricious cruelty. I did not accept that behavior from my children, and will not accept a god who acts like an untrained four year old.
Take care and live free
I was just thinking that when it was mentioned that evolution violates the second law of thermodynamics and you said in response "no, but God does" that you were wrong to start the response with "no." Whether or not God violates it, evolution still does also.(However, if there is a God then it doesn't matter whether or not He eviolates it because He is omnipotent and created the law of thermodaynamics in the first place. Then He wouldn't have to abide by it.) Just curious why you said that evolution didn't violate it though. By the way I am a Christian, my comment is a friendly one and in no way even implies that I believe that everything is a "happy accident"
I'm always happy to hear from my thoughtful Christian visitors!
Well, I said that evolution doesn't violate the second law of thermodynamics and it doesn't. The second law essentially states that entropy will tend to increase in a closed system. Earth isn't a closed system, it's part of a system that includes the sun. If it weren't for the sun, there would be no life on earth, and the sun creates so much entropy that even if life results in the loss of entropy, the sun more than makes up for it.
cool site man! Right to start off - i am an atheist. I am what you call a strong atheist and there are countless reasons why i do not believe in god. I can't be bothered to go through them all right now but all i can say is that i have studyed evolution,pysics and other books.
And in your studies you've found proof that God doesn't exist, or just proof that God isn't necessary? In my opinion, strong atheism is very difficult to justify.
In your arguments against list you put the statement that hitler was atheist and follow with you don't know his religion. Hitler was a christian. There are many accounts of his worship in church.
The statement on that page that Hitler was an atheist is phrased as coming from the lips of someone arguing against atheism. In general, I don't agree with those people.
I believe the whole idea of monogamy stems from patriarchal properties rights that were upheld by "divine providence" so I can't agree that as an atheist I must or any other atheist must engage in sex with only their significant other.
The roots of a rule do not necessarily validate or invalidate a rule, so we can ignore where the tradition of monogamy came from (by the same token, you can't invalidate the U.S. Constitution by saying that it's the work of sexist slave-owners). I agree that there is no moral reason why an atheist must be monogamous. However, an atheist must, as a moral individual, uphold social contracts, so no fair fooling around on your spouse and then trying to use this argument to justify yourself.
To all of the believers trying to prove the author of this site wrong; I am currently an agnostic and could go either way, and i respect all beliefs including theists. Right now, the author is presenting intelligent information, with the understanding that it is his opinion and not The Truth. Also right now, all I hear from the believers is "You're wrong." Now I am sure that there are many believers out there who can give some intelligent input about their beliefs, but I have yet to come across any. Maybe this is because the author of the web site is only publishing the most disgusting and stereotypical viewpoints, but I find this hard to believe, as he has proved his open-mindedness in many of his constructive responses to agnostics and theists alike. I would definitely like to see some intelligent analysis of theist beliefs coming from a theist himself. Please take into account that I go to a catholic school, respect the catholic faith, and am not mentally retarded
"The Bible says so" and "Look at the beauty of nature" won't help me realize anything new. I have looked at the bible, possibly more than some theists here and with a more receptive attitude as well. I am also a person who lives on this planet just as much as everyone else, and can think for myself enough to realize that nature is there, and enough to wonder about its origins instead of blindly accepting one viewpoint out of hundreds. Thank you to the editor for creating this site, it offers a new perspective for me among many of the same one-track catholic sites and strong god-denying atheist sites.
Thank you so much for this note -- I really do appreciate it. You are right that I don't only publish the worst letters I receive -- in fact, I post almost all of my correspondence (leaving out only those that ask not to be posted, that are personal, that amount to just a "thumbs up," or that contain too much personally identifiable information).
I, too, would like to hear more well-reasoned arguments for religious belief. I'll be sure to post them as they come in!
I am a sophomore in high school, and I have been atheist since around sixth or seventh grade, although I didnt really understand why. I guess it seemed to be the intellectual belief, and to be honest, I'm an intellectual person. My arguments basically consisted of "There are many things more likely than the existance of god." But recently I've gone over my beliefs again, and I find that I very much agree with the author of this website, both in terms of what I believe and how an atheist should deal with all types of theists. Your arguments, and the response to each comment, are all carefully thought out and presented in a mature way, and because of this I think that you are doing a very good job of giving atheists a more positive image.
The religion I grew up with was Judaism, which I think (from what I know about the religions of the world) is probably one of the most open-minded modern religions in that it encourages everyone to actually question their beliefs and identity, which I always had a lot of respect for. I am also involved in a Jewish youth group at my synagogue. At conventions for the youth group, when the subject of god comes up, and I explain that I don't believe in god, the first question asked to me, every time, is "Well if you don't believe in god then why are you here?" Although not always said in an accusing tone, this question makes me feel a little out of place. I'm a member of my youth group because it's a great social experience, not because I believe in all of what Judaism has to say.
Also, although i don't believe in the theological ideas of Judaism, I agree with many of the social ideas, like the second half of the Ten Commandments, as long as the sole reason behind them isn't "only god knows why." (for instance, keeping kosher). In addition, I sometimes feel that religion is important in terms of a close family, so I go to synagogue with my parents every saturday when they ask me to go.
I sometimes feel that I'm being hypocritical when I get involved with Judaism, although I don't believe in god. I honestly believe that I couldn't marry a religious non-jew because I identify with Judaism so well. But I guess what I'm asking is, How can I make myself feel more comfortable identifying with and participating in Judaism, even though I don't really believe in it?
Thanks for your help, and I honestly think that you give atheists a much better name than most outspoken ones.
Your letter makes me very sorry that I had to be away from this site for so long. I wish I could have answered you more promptly.
No matter how you feel about God, you are Jewish by birth and by culture. It is a part of you, your family, and your community. There's nothing wrong with that. Being an atheist doesn't mean having to give up your culture or change your friends. It also doesn't mean you have to reject the good things that religion has to offer.
As much as it annoys some atheists, I celebrate Christmas. I don't put a star on the tree, I don't go to church, and I don't have a crèche, but I do practice the traditions I was brought up with. I go to the weddings and funerals of friends even when they are held in churches and synagogues. When I'm having a hard time and a Christian friend says she'll pray for me, I thank her. None of this is an endorsement of religion, but a validation of my needs and the needs of my loved ones.
I'd say that so long as you are not being deceptive about who you are and what you believe, that there is no hypocracy in what you are doing.
Best of luck.
I think its really fun to argue with the Jehova's Wittneses when they try and peddle their religion at my door, does that make me a bad person?
and I wasn't an accident, they wanted me they just didn't realize it at the time.
I'd say that seeking an argument for the sake of the entertainment of having an argument is, at the very least, impolite (unless the person you're arguing with also wants that type of entertainment). On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with having a discussion with someone who approaches you with the intent of convincing you of their way of thinking.
I'd say that the difference is that in the former case you're wasting someone's time for your own enjoyment, and in the latter you're making an honest attempt to either change the person's mind or find out more about their beliefs. If you find yourself arguing in a badgering way or phrasing things in the most inflammatory way possible, then I'd say you're probably not really having a discussion, you're just harassing someone for fun.
I'm sure that some people will say that Jehovah's Witnesses are "asking for it" by coming to your door in the first place. I would disagree. They honest believe that they are trying to help people and, in that sense, are probably more morally justified than, say, a salesperson who comes to your door. You can politely turn them away (or just not answer your door), or you can put up a "no solicitors" sign.
But being rude or badgering to someone sincerely religious can only give atheists a bad name. We don't need more of that.
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